St. Paul: Why and How did it happen?
Dear brothers and sisters, we begin 2003 with another apparent mystery, but remember a mystery is only a mystery when it has not been revealed.
WHY and HOW was it, that St. Paul, one of the most powerfully anointed men of God, with an awesome ministry that was continuously followed by miraculous signs and wonders, was beaten, flogged and thrown into prison in most areas he preached in?
We welcomed the opinions of all our brothers and sisters after checking their swords (bibles), to respond and let us know what they thought was the reason. This was not an invitation however, for some people to make foolish comments on a person as anointed as St. Paul. The Five Fold Ministry Ireland will always hold this man up as one of the pillars of Christianity. We are just sharing the revelation that God has given us.
The answer we believe will be a blessing unto many.
And from the biggest evangelists of this world to the lone individual in front-line ministry, it will be a help to understand God's ways which are not always ours, as will be seen when the answer is revealed.
A random selection of opinions received will be published here. The answer was revealed on Monday 27th January 2003, (8 am Irish Time).
Your brother in Christ,
Harry.
P.S. No real names etc. were displayed in the interests of visitor confidentiality.
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REPLIES
Glad4JC:
My Brother IN Christ, Five-Fold,
It is always a pleasure to see you, and though I will take the time to meditate your question more fully, I wish to thank you for the following words, they warm my soul:
"This is not an invitation however, for some people to make foolish comments on a person as anointed as St. Paul. The Five Fold Ministry Ireland will always hold this man up as one of the pillars of Christianity."
Blessings IN Christ
P.S. Either way you look at it, when you consider Paul, being lowered down the town walls in a basket, speaking before rulers, sailing the seas, being stoned to death one day (I do perceive) and preaching the next... what a truly exciting life indeed... yep, the Christian life is as utterly exciting as it gets .
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Curt: The Apostle Paul was punished for the same exact reason that Christ was punished. He is one of the Generals in God's Army, and the enemy will always go after the Generals.
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Pastor R. K.
Dear brethren; What a joy it is to fellowship with you around our Lord and His Life!
He is by far the most precious to know and share! He called us into an everlasting covenant relationship of love! Because of the depth of His love and the love of His Father, there is no reason for mediocrity, half-heartedness,
doubt, unbelief, abandonment or treason...He is totally satisfying and fulfilling!
Our fellow early disciples experienced all those things even with the privilege of the Lord first hand. Why did Peter look away to the sea instead of walking into His arms? Why did Thomas doubt the resurrection? Why did Peter
deny Him three times? Why did Judas Iscariot betray Him? Why did so many abandon Him? Why could they not pray one hour with Him even in His extreme emotional request?
Why did this later disciple, Saul of Tarsus, become such a great, passionate, powerful disciple of His?
These are good questions, brethren! They may, in my mind, lead up to answering the question, "Why did Paul, the Apostle, suffer such violence and persecution nearly everywhere he preached?"
The answer,I dare say, cannot be singly stated, but perhaps simplified. I am compelled to
say the answer lies in the enemies of our souls. Our own fleshly nature, the corrupted world system, and the devil on the prowl to destroy God's choice creation - mankind.
The fact a person becomes converted and especially when they come on fire with the Holy Spirit for God's particular purposes, therein is an enemy of the devil and a threat to his cause and all efforts will be made to stop such a believer. But thanks be to God! There has been already made the greatest effort necessary to pay all costs required to free and establish God's chosen vessels to complete authority and victory over the enemies of our souls.
I have said before, that we must learn to win the battle for our own soul before we can have the advantage over the enemies of another soul. Jesus knew this
battle as well as any of us, and He led the way to thorough victory.
Saul of Tarsus had a God-given gift of being a serious student and was on his way to becoming the top Jewish teacher of his day. Jesus said, "the student is not
above his teacher; but when the student is fully trained he will be like his teacher." The young convert Saul, quickly becoming Paul, knew already how to study the teacher, and he knew the power to follow that Teacher Jesus was in
studying His life and teachings.
Paul took everything Jesus said and did SERIOUSLY. And leaving all his past behind him, now was dead set on going forward only in Christ! He learned the value of putting on Christ, having the mind of Christ, becoming like Christ as a servant, emptying himself, and being filled with the Spirit.
Paul became the mightiest of all the apostles, just under Jesus Himself, because of his undistracted devotion to Him. Along with the glory Jesus shared with brother Paul, Paul knew he would have to share in his suffering. He knew to satisfy his hunger for more of God, more of Jesus, he would have to endure the hardships and persecutions that accompany divine greatness in this enmiteous world. The Apostle told us he was desiring to know Jesus more not only in His resurrection power, but also in His suffering fellowship.
We cannot go to this place of getting to know Him in the fwellowship of His suffering until we first learn to love and be satisfied with the power of His resurrection. But both are necessary to grow in both. The deeper we go in suffering for Jesus the more we are plunged into the satisfying truth of His resurrection power. Paul learned the value of fellowshipping with Jesus in His
sufferings as Paul himself suffered in his suffering. We don't have to suffer alone, God has planned for Jesus to fellowship with us as we suffer for Christ.
It isn't until we go deeper in suffering that we can be rocketed fuller into His power.
Today, brethren, we are a weak Church Body because of our desire to not face pain, humiliation and persecution. Yet, that is the very thing we need the most for His power to come forth greater. It helps to seek the lowest points of life around us and go there to minister God's provision to the need. Look for those in our Churches, schools and communities hurting and the most needy
whether spiritually, emotionally, physically, mentally, relationally, and provide your greatest measure of Agape Spirit-filled ministry. Release the provisions of Heaven to the lowest of the low, regardless of how others view you
or taunt you.
Earn the right to challenge the darkness and command their forces to retreat and call forth every soul to freedom in our Beloved Savior's Provision. Am I there yet? Nay, my beloved brethren. But I want to learn to be a student of the Savior, the King of Kings, and be a servant soldier follower of Him, however and wherever He leads. If the world rejected Jesus, how much more will they reject all who come in His name declaring His works, revealing His
ways and walking in His wonders! Shalom! Fuelling for Revival!
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Leviticus
Yes and he was amongst the enemy, just as we are.
Satan is the ruler of this world, his minions are everywhere! what else can we expect, deep behind enemy lines as we are.
to be quite honest with you five fold I thought this was obvious, any Christian should know that life here and now is not going to be a box of roses considering the circumstances we are plunged into.
But I suppose that there are many who don't actualy realise the full extend of it.
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NOTE: Things often appear obvious, but things obviously are often not what they appear. Thank you all for your answers so far though none are correct. Here is a "help" for you whilst you study the scriptures.
Do you really think that it was God's INTENTION that one of His most anointed be beaten, flogged and shipwrecked?
We don't think so. The revelation will be a help to ANYONE in front-line ministry. We encourage prayer and meditation to receive revelation. Five Fold
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Deke
The Word teaches me (and is verified by my life experiences) that this persecution shall surely happen to those who follow and preach the Good news of Christ Jesus. It also teaches me that to suffer "in His name" is a priviledge and an honor. Knowing God is who He says He is... that is enough for me.
Peace, Deke
...as to why it happened to Paul, maybe I'll fully understand it all when I get to heaven.
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Five Fold
In our twenty years experience in front-line ministry as the most successful outreach team in our country by the Grace of God, it has been our experience too that there is indeed great opposition. But that inevitably, only means an even greater harvest won for the Lord.
This however is not what we are talking about here. What we are talking about is revelation of why it happened. This is what we would stress. Not what we know, nor even what we believe but only what is revealed. That can only come about by God's revelation to us.
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Barbara
Hello, this is the reason why Paul suffered. These scriptures speak for themself,especially Verse 16 in the book of Acks Chapter 9 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
This is the WHY AND HOW.
Love in Jesus,
Barbara
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Leviticus
Why it happened: because Paul put all his faith in Jesus and KNEW the he was right, he preformed miracles and proved they where wrong
How it happened: he continuosly flouted thier authority and would not bow or compromise to thier orders so they flogged him beat him and threw him in jail.
Such is the life of a soilder of the cross.
Shalom
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Deacon
I love the stories about Paul and also Abraham. These scripture show such Faith! They are my benchmark in all things faith-related.
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Scotland
Dear Friends,
I honestly believe that no single answer can be given as to why Paul was allowed to suffer as he was.
However, God being all Omniscient, in His plans and purposes, permitted these things for Paul's own benefit Godward, remember the 'thorn in the flesh"
Also through his suffering, Paul was able to be used of the Lord to reach and effect others who may not have been influenced for God otherwise.
As with all God's children, tried by fire to become more pure gold to His glory alone.
In His peerless name, Raised from the dead.
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REVELATION
THE ANSWER
Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,
We know that you have been waiting for this moment. We are going to show you true scripture where Paul, one of the greatest apostles ever, made his first mistake.
Where Paul split the anointing of the Spirit of God thus giving the enemy an opening for attack. The Holy Spirit of God said,? Separate me Barnbas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them?.
He did not say, separate me Paul and Silas, nor Paul and Timothy!
He was specific, precise in His instructions. This is a very good lesson for all those reading this, particularly those who are involved in frontline ministries i.e. outreaches. That you follow not man's wisdom but God's, then you will not bring hardship on yourself unless you do it yourself.
You can see how the enemy caused a rift between Paul and Barnbas. The enemy deliberately did this. He separated and split the ministry in two with Barnabas going one way and Paul another, because of Mark.
It is important to take note that when God gives precise instructions it is imperative that you follow them to the letter! This is a lesson for all worldwide ministries who may be experiencing problems at the moment. "Go back to where God has called you to be and for whom He has called you to work with".
ACTS 13:2 - 3
As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, "Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them".
And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.
ACTS 15:39 : 40
And the contention was so sharp between them that they departed asunder, one from the other: and so Barnbas took Mark, and sailed unto Cyprus;
And Paul chose Silas, and departed, being recommended by the brethren unto the Grace of God.
We trust that you will study these scriptures and gain wisdom from this. Again, the Five Fold still esteem Paul as one of the greatest evangelists ever and we are not taking away from one of the greatest ministries after Jesus Christ.
Paul, evangelist.
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rev cj
Interesting statement regarding Paul. Couple of questions/observations. Not trying to argue but rather gain understanding.
Acts 9:16 Paul is to be shown how much he must suffer for Jesus name (Jesus words here).
Stephen was stoned to death and was not guilty of splitting anointing.
Acts 14 - Paul and Barnabas were almost stoned in Iconium. Paul was stoned in Lystra/Derbe and left for dead. This was before the split.
Peter and John were jailed and between. They were not guilty of splitting anointing. We understand Peter was martyred and John exiled. It was in exile
that John received The Revelation of Jesus Christ.
Scripture never implicates either Paul or Barnabas as being in the wrong. Was Barnabas as "guilty" as Paul? If not, why not?
If this was such a horrible offense as to cause Paul's suffering, why does Scripture not give a stern warning to us at that point?
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Dear Brother,
We thank you for your letter and for your kind words but we always have to ask the fact, "Does the Living God want us to be stoned, beaten and whipped?"
Do you think yourself that this is God's plan for His generals or do you not think that it also says in scripture that God even knows how many hairs we have in our head and that we are His children.
If you have your own children, and you are earthly, would you be happy yourself to see them stoned and beaten for your work or plan. We don't believe so.
We actually do not believe this of a Loving God who wants nothing only good things for His children. So, we have to look at why these things happen and everything happens for a reason.
The Five Fold Ministry Ireland is respected by some of the biggest global ministries and is regarded as one of the foremost healing ministries in the world. In twenty years of frontline ministry, seventy five outreaches in all we have never asked for, received nor been offered any financial help of any kind whatsoever yet we are debt free and worry free. The Lord takes care of everything.
Such is the anointing and power of the Holy Spirit at these God ordained and directed meetings that 100,000's (hundreds of thousands) of lost have individually accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour, with salvation accompanied at every single meeting with miraculous signs and wonders, (as evidenced on this site). Literally millions have heard the repentance call through the Five Fold's radio / TV broadcasts.
Yet things have not always been easy, with the enemy constantly attacking us physically and spiritually, and indeed we have been in many, many life threatening situations. Often going into towns and cities that many ministries would not go near because of the personal danger.
There were also times when other ministers claimed they would die for the Gospel, but how would the grave praise God or save more souls? Is it not better to live for the Gospel?
Through all our trials NO weapons formed against us prospered and we have yet to suffer stoning or whipping.
We must get away from this train of thought that we have to suffer affliction for the Gospel of Christ. We do not believe this has to be. If it is brought on, it certainly is not being brought on by a loving God.
At first we wondered if your words spoke from actual experience of frontline ministry but maybe this letter will bring you into a deeper understanding of what that is really like because there are so few Christians who are either involved in or have the anointing for, reaching and winning the lost. Perhaps also it will bring you into a deeper understanding of what is the truth for Jesus said the truth will set you free.
We would be interested in visiting your website or viewing photographic evidence of how the Lord has used you to win souls for the Kingdom of God over the last decades.
Please ponder on these words and the revelation on this page that you may gain the wisdom and understanding you seek.
The Five Fold Ministry make no apologies nor explanations of who they are in Christ.
Paul
Evangelist.
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